and you have these i'd listic change machines like the obama, 2008 campaign that cesc -- very successful campaign. hope and change, very, very powerfully delivered and daftly by the then senator. they were not going to take -- they were not going to opt out of the campaign finance system in 2008. they started to raise all kinds of money, they opted out. they said they were not going work with the super ppacs. they said when they were getting outgunned, they said we're going to work with super pacs. they said we're not going to have lobbyists in the white house. this exception and this exception. and any number of never minds that this administration, any number of former senators will just sort of exercise like your recurring get out of jail free card. and it wears you down. and i say that as a journalist but also as someone who would like to think better of people when they say they're going to do certain things. >> what did you think of government when you were at the university of michigan? civics, government? >> i didn't study it. i didn't -- i've always had a very -- growing up with